Hysteria Rules

Shannon

Tamara: Most children, even preschoolers, are being taught to speak different languages such as Spanish and French in our world today. If kids are able to do that I think it makes them capable of telling the difference between a pat on the rear for doing something bad and a display of affection. By gently discipling children, the parents will show their children what are "no-no's" without mentally damaging their reasoning skills and without smudging the line between abuse and affecton.

Krystal:

The person a child becomes is not only determined on whether the child was spanked or not. Just because a child was spanked doesn't mean he will be scarred, violent, and pathetically confused. Also, just because a child wasn't spanked doesn't mean he will be a saint either. Other aspects of parenting determine the person a child grows up to be, not just the form of discipline.

Spanking is Ineffective

Kimberly (Hassenplug)

Tamara:Parents don't simply "hit" their children just to stop their current behavior - parents have good intentions as long as their actions are not over the top. When i was kid and if i did something bad i would get a small pat on the rear. . . do i have mental incapabilities today? do i have handicapped reasoning skills? do i have trouble socializing with people? No. I am a normal, healthy person who has morals, and lives by them. Reasonable discipline is not a negative thing and its not a form of abuse.

Natanya:  The action of spanking does stop bad behavior in the short term, but the long term effects can be just as positive. Children learn to respect their parents' authority when they know that misbehavior will result in spanking. Occasional spanking can even reduce the amount a parent needs to discipline a child. For example, my father spanked me as a child, and I learned to obey him when he gave "the look" because I knew what would happen next. After I learned that spanking was a posibility when I misbehaved, he rarely had to spank me again. Spanking is not only about punishment; it is about establishing parental authority.

Natanya:  @Norm44 (Talk to the Wall)  Probably one of the reasons your mom doesn't want you to spank your younger sibblings is because it wouldn't be as effective coming from someone closer to their own age.  To kids, a sibbling is a kid like them, so they would be more likely to hit back than they would if they were being spanked by a parent.  Everyone in your family has most likely been taught not to hit, so if you did spank your sibblings, they might see that as you breaking the rules and think it is ok for them to break the rules too.  I'm not saying that your sibblings don't respect you.  I'm just saying that spanking should probably be left up to your parents.  When my little sister was born, that became the rule in our house because I thought I could "spank" her if she annoyed me.  What I was really doing was hitting her because I was mad. 

Tamara: @Kimberly  agree completely. In most cases a child has a warning also, its not as if a parent just loses control after a kid does or says something inappropriate. Most parents iniate a countdown like "one. . . two. . ." or warn them "you better stop." When I was a little kid and was throwimg a temper tantrum my mom would always tell me "you better stop this behavior before I get to three." Then she would start counting and it would work everytime and I would stop when she got to two.

Tamara: @Norm44 I understand that different people have different ways of discipling children, but I ultimately think that spanking is an acceptable form of discipline - when its used with discretion. In most cases, making a child sit in a chair or putting them in a corner helps, but if you watch some of those reality shows on t.v. it doesn't always work effectively in every situation.

Spanking Has Existed for Centuries as a Form of Discipline

Natanya:  Many comments to this argument point out that other practices, such as slavery, existed for centuries and argue that this disproves Rosemond's point.  While it is true that simply existing for centuries does not make something right, being effective for centuries does give it some crediblility.  Unlike spanking, "slavery, wars of conquest, no votes for women, racism, predjudice, public executions, and suicide" are harmful and have no benefits to the people that these acts are being committed against.   Spanking has the benefit of keeping children out of trouble and teaching them right from wrong.  Rosemond's point was that if spanking had few negative side-effects on him and people his age who were spanked and said they deserved it, there is no reason to believe that today's children will be permanently scarred either. 

Spanking Has Negative Side Effects

Natanya:  Your last point, that children who are spanked are more likely to be abused by their parents later, is invalid. Unlike the other points, being abused is not something that the child can control. It is not an effect of spanking on the emotional state of the child. Rather, abuse is a tendency of the parents. If parents have abusive tendencies AFTER spanking their child, they probably had those tendencies BEFORE spanking their child. Also, if the parents in this study were abusive, obviously the results of this study do not reflect the effects of positive corrective discipline; they merely show that abused children will have problems later on.

Krystal: @Natanya i agree completely. You don't become violent because you hit your child; you become violent from a previous source.  What good parent enjoys disciplining their child whether by spanking or not? Spanking is not the only factor that determines if a child is antisocial or not.  Just because a child wasn't spanked as a child does not mean that child will grow up to be happy, healthy, and fully social. 

No Evidence Supports the Spanking Hysteria

Natanya:  The problem here is that parents should not leave it up to the child to "link up the spanking to what they had just done." Spanking a child and not telling them why they were just spanked IS confusing and wrong. One does not have to be an expert to know to spank a child, and spanking is not a substitute for explaining what a child did wrong. Any time my father spanked me, he asked, "Do you know why I had to spank you?". Then he would explain what I had done wrong and why he had to punish me. I may not have understood why I was being spanked at first, but after he explained, I not only knew what I had done wrong, I also knew what the consequences of my actions were. If children's minds are capable of understanding why not to do something, they are capable of understanding that spanking is the consequence of their action.

Better Alternatives Exist

 Tamara: Spanking is a consequence. When i was younger and i was bad my mom would say "You don't want me to get to three!" Then she would start counting. . . ."one. . . twwwooooo. . . " and i would stop every time before she got to three. In fact she still does it today. Why does it would i don't know - but plain and simple: it does.

Kelsey

Krystal:

What happens when those alternatives to spanking don't work? Sometimes, as a last resort, spanking is the only effective means of teaching children how to behave. A child who isn't spanked often obviously won't enjoy a swat to the rear and will most likely learn from their mistakes so as to avoid the unwanted spanking. Of course there are better ways to handle a situation when a child is misbehaving but sometimes the situation demands a slightly harsher punishment. It really depends on knowing your child and knowing what methods are effective and reasonable.

Spanking and the Bible

Tamara:  I agree. . . people don't need to take things so literally. In fact, there are many metaphors that were used in the Bible. Where could metaphors begin but in the book that talks about all beginnings? A world, generations of people, many languages, figurative language used in languages, and yes, metaphors.

Natanya:  Let's look at the verse in context:
Proverbs 23:13
"Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die."
How many parents would be concerned with their children DYING from being talked to or given a time out? Obviously, this is talking about physical beating if he is discussing the physical outcome. Notice, however, that the child will NOT die from being beaten with a rod. The purpose of these verses is to tell parents that causing a child physical pain early on in life is a small price if it makes him a better person and saves his soul.

Natanya:  @Tamara (Bible Language)  Just because the Bible is "the book that talks all about beginnings," and figurative language is used in the Bible doesn't mean that everything in the Bible is figurative.  People often pick out the parts of the Bible that they don't like or agree with and dismiss them as "metaphors."  Usually (with the exception of some prophecies) when the Bible states something directly, it is completely literal.  The passage from Proverbs, as well as other passages that people debate over, makes more sense when read literally.

Tamara: @NClark Yes there are many things that should be taken literally, but there are still many metaphors. Metaphors are comparisons used to get a point across. For example in Luke 7 there is a metaphoric comparison bwtn two debtors and the woman with the alabaster box. Generally speaking they didn't have a lot in common, but Jesus connected them together by showing Simon a comparison.

Spanking is An Act of Violence

There's a fine line between swatting a child's backside as a form of discipline and beating the crap out of that child. Spanking is a reasonable method to teach your child right and wrong. When I was little I was spanked whenever I did something wrong and realized not to do it again. I don't believe I am in any way devastated for receiving spankings in my childhood. Spanking has been a method of discipline for a very long time and is not violence unless taken too far.

Brittany :

Spanking does NOT always intend to cause pain

There is definitely a place to draw the line between discipline and abuse, and when spanking becomes hitting and is actually causing the child physical pain or injurt, that is unacceptable. But many parents who use spanking as a method of discipline do NOT spank hard enough to cause pain, but rather to cause shock. A spank is startling to a child and is often effective as a last resort. Children cry the same way they do when spanked when a toy is taken away, does this mean they are hurt? Of course not... they're simply angry or upset. There is nothing wrong with a light smack on the behind as a way of being straightforward and putting your foot down.

Spanking Isn't Always the Answer

Krystal:

Spanking should be used as a last resort if it is effective. There's always another option to getting a message across to a child and whatever your methods, there is also always a limit as to how far you should go. I'm not saying a pat on the behind or a total beating will get a message into a child's head, but you as a parent should know the limit. As Rosemond said, it depends on what form of discipline is effective with your child and you shouldn't beat your child for just the heck of it, but to show them when they are doing something right or wrong.

Yeah, It "Works."

 Tamara: If the parents said “I was spanked and I have never recovered," then why are they in a parenting class. If they never "recovered" then shouldn't they know how to discipline their children effectively and how not to, instead of going to a class to learn how to parent a child?

Krystal: @Tamara I agree that the parent who "never recovered" should know whether what they believe is wrong and right and should feel strongly about that point, but maybe they were going to classes to seek reassurance that they can do the right thing.  But then again, if someone who has never "recovered" from an act of "violence" then maybe they aren't emotionally fit to become a parent, but that's probably going into another issue...

The Debate Over the State

Krystal: If there is a separation of church and state, there should be a separation of state and parent/child relationships unless the relationship is unhealthy and is causing harm to either the parent or child.
As for, "bureaucracy will seek to expand itself, as all bureaucracies do", I agree. Those who are given something, want more and more of it. If the state can already control activities we do or don't do at work and school, why should they have control of what we do at home? If the state is controlling the method of discipline a parent is using with their child then the state and not the parent is controlling the development of that individual. Even though government interference is not a bad thing for some families since the parents are unfit to take care of their children in a safe manner, those parents probably shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

Evan(Olson)

Parenting is Evolving Away From Spanking

Natanya:  I would be afraid to envision a time when spanking was no longer allowed in America.   Look around at the children who aren't spanked.  We have all seen them at the grocery store, and it is obvious which ones they are.  Most of them are spoiled brats who whine and beg while their parents stand by constantly telling them to stop with no effect.  Children are smart - they know empty threats when they see them.  If a parent is all talk and no action, a child will eventually learn to ignore their parents' reprimands altogether.  True, I have also seen some parents who spank too much, making spanking just as ineffective as empty words.  Parents should employ a variety of tactics when disciplining their children, so that the children get a punishment relative to the severity of their misbehavior.  Also, spanking should never be used as a way for parents to "regulat[e] their own feelings."  If parents are letting their emotions rule their actions, then no, those parents should not be trusted to spank their children.

Krystal: @Natanya I agree. Those children who throw temper tantrums at the grocery store when their parent won't buy them candy probably weren't given the message that their parent is in charge.  Those children are controlling their parent instead of the other way around.  Also, just because "parenting is evolving away from spanking" does not mean that that parenting is effective.  While some parents who are using the "evolved" method of discipline are having success, they are merely using another form of discipline that works for them while other parents are using the "traditional" method of discipline.

Rebuttal to The Center for Effective Discipline